Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh continue to suggest that President-elect Barack Obama is to blame for the decline in the stock market, referring to the state of the stock market as an "Obama recession." In fact, analysts have refuted the proposition that the market decline has anything to do with anticipation of Obama's presidency.The analysis they site? Fox News and the Wall Street Journal. Take a look.
Or as Keith put it:
Obama won't be President until two months from next Thursday. Republicans have been overspending and under regulating us into the toilet for eight years and the President-Elect has been warning about a recession for a year while the Republican candidate kept saying that the fundamentals of the economy were strong. And it's THE OBAMA RECESSION.The Crazie.
Agreed. It's not Obama's recession yet. But it will be, and that's all but inevitable. Objectively, the problems began during the Bush administration. And equally objectively, the stock market did take a bit of a dive after the election.
ReplyDeleteIf the recession ends on January 21st, then I don't imagine that you would be willing to give credit to President Bush for doing most of the work to make that happen, despite the fact that Obama would have only been in office for a single day at that point. Instead, you would likely give credit to President Obama for injecting a new hope into our nation and propelling us into proseperity by his mere pressence.
So if Obama is fixing to take credit for ending the recession (whenever that comes), he also will have to accept the risk of being blamed for it if it goes on too long. In this case, with things as bad as they are, I don't see any president or any governmental policy being able to bring our problems to a stop.
The recession is going to go on and on for a few years (they usually do). At some point -- maybe after a year, or maybe after two years -- Obama is going to take a few hits for being unable to stop it. And then, slowly, this recession will become "his".
And I say this with every hope that my prognotications are full of absolute crap.
John K: I agree it is the Hussein Obama recession. People voted with their money. They took it out and moved it to lower tax investments. They ain't stupid. Unlike liberals who are stupid. But none the less, look at Hussein Obama supporter Dan Rooney. Also known as Montgomery Burns. He wants to close the sale of the team so he doesn't have to pay those coming capital gains taxes. He said it himself. Other investors are doing the same. Couple that with what Frank and Dodd did to the housing market and people are moving the money to safer places. And as usual the left is Bawaaa whining that it is not fair they need that tax money to make Hussein Obama's socialism work. LOL LOL LMAO Like I said you left wingers are so dumb we can fool you every day. LMAO
ReplyDeleteJohn K: Hey Kimber, they are counting the votes for Jive Turkey and Mickey Mouse in Minn. They voted for Franken on acorn ballots. Gee isn't it interesting that all the found votes are for one guy. LOL LOL Left wingers are so funny.
ReplyDeleteActually, RKT, theFreakonomics blog addressed your queston somewhat just recently (http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/12/the-president-the-economy-and-the-lag/). I remember the Reagan (maybe really the Carter) recession went on for a while. I sort of think we spent our way out of that one (there was a considerable rise in the national debt).
ReplyDeleteBy the way, RKT, are you agreeing with John K., for example that liberals are stupid, and easily fooled, every day, by people who listen to Rush Limbaugh?
And John K., did you forget to put any citations for your claims? Who has moved their money (a link, please), and who bought whatever you are talking about? Can you show a source that says that all the found votes are for one guy in Minnesota?
Ironic, isn't it?
ReplyDeleteEight years ago, the economy was strong, but slowing. Prez-elect Bush and his team immediately declared that the economy was in a recession. Their objective: Make sure that, if the economy did slip into a recession in 2001 (Technically, it did, in March.), that there would be no doubt that it was Clinton's Fault (!!!!!).
Now, with the economy clearly in a recession, all they know for sure is that it is Obama's Fault(!!!!), even though GW is still in office.
Gotta love it.
John K: You left wingers are so dumb you thought that when Hussein Obama said he was going to tax the rich that the rich would just roll over and accept it. LOL LOL LMAO The money isn't gone. It just moved into non taxable sectors like municipals and commodities. LMAO And Dan Rooney is one of those rich people sticking it to Hussein Obama's plams. LMAO You left wingers are easily fooled. LOL
ReplyDeleteJohn K: How is it statistically possible for all the found votes in Minn to be all for Franken? You mean no found votes belong to Coleman? Well it is possible when the union thugs deliver the votes and they come from acorn registered people. Not hard to figure out at all.
ReplyDeletejohnk,
ReplyDeleteOk, I'll bite.
What taxes, real or imagined, is Dan Rooney avoiding, as he attempts to buy the shares of the Steelers that he doesn't own?
John K: Once again, to the amusement of us all, Kimber has shown her complete stupidity. Its a business asset. Business. When you sell a business asset you have a gain or loss. If it is a gain, and in this case it clearly is, (even Dan Rooney recognizes this) then you pay a capital gain tax. In this case at the long term rate.
ReplyDeleteJohn K: By the way, Wayne Huziniga (owner of the Miami Dolphins) is doing the same thing. So for the left to make an argument that this recession was not caused by Hussein Obama himself and his policies can't stand. Dayvoe sort of looks like a fool here. Rooney gets up there and supports Obama and then runs from his tax increases. This is sort of the definition of hypocracy. And people with money, left or right, are doing the same thing. Plus we have the fact that Obama himself stood in court and sued to enforce the Community Redevelopment Act. Then we have Frank and Dodd as well as Raines and Franks' gay lover all caught up in Fannie Mae Freddie Mac telling investors those debts were rated AAA when they were junk. Too bad left wing kooks. Live with it. LMAO
ReplyDeleteJohn K: Hey did you see Bush called that economic summit (G20). Guess who isn't there, Obama. Yah Hussein Obama. LOL LOL And best of all left wing kooks, these folks ain't going to indict Bush as a war criminal. They are just going to fix this mess caused by Democrats and their liberal toadies.
ReplyDeletelittle boy,
ReplyDeleteDan Rooney is buying the team.
He's not the one selling the asset.
little boy,
ReplyDeleteIn explaining Obama's decision not to attend the G8 summit called by President Bush, Obama's spokesman said:
"There can be only one President of the United States at a time."
The G8 summits are for heads of state, or their representatives.
Until Jan. 20th, he's still just Senator Obama, and soon to be not even that.
By protocol, he can't reasonably attend, now, can he?
This is indeed Obama’s recession, just like the bursting of the dot com bubble was Bush’s recession. You should read some of your own posts. Be that as it may, Bush lowered taxes and interest rates and in spite of 9/11 and the War in Iraq was able to blow quite a significant bubble on the rebound; that, just like at the end of the Clinton presidency has just burst. Obama has a couple of problems, as NYT’s Krugman says, But on both of these earlier occasions the standard policy response to a weak economy — a cut in the federal funds rate, the interest rate most directly affected by Fed policy — was still available. Today, it isn’t: the effective federal funds rate (as opposed to the official target, which for technical reasons has become meaningless) has averaged less than 0.3 percent in recent days. Basically, there’s nothing left to cut. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/14/opinion/14krugman.html?_r=1&oref=slogin The second problem is he has promised NOT to lower taxes but raise them on the most productive. Most economists would think this counterproductive, but we will see. In 1992, the Federal Reserve Bank Of Kansas City’s Economic Review set the tone with the discussion of the relationship between personal taxes, borrowing, government spending, and the standard of living. They wrote the definitive stand on the Board’s fiscal philosophy. They recommended that taxes remain high and interest rates low because except for a limited amount of infrastructure, the government sector does nothing to grow the economy. “All economic growth comes from the private sector.” It was a bad mistake. The people who pay taxes are PRODUCTIVE. We tax income, capital gains, and profits, all measures of productivity, not wealth. I would much rather trust the people making the money to spend it wisely, than a bunch of crooked bankers, corporate hacks, and outright criminals borrowing it. At that time, I recommended, that the government “borrow” all the growth of the money supply and to control inflation we use taxes. When the economy is booming, we increase taxes (and reduce borrowing) and when we want to stimulate the economy we cut taxes and increase borrowing, growing the money supply. The Federal Reserve would become a part of the Treasury (controlling tax rates to control inflation not interest rates) and the member banks would be made independent (like credit unions). Milton Friedman had some sort of a similar suggestion. We were both laughed at. Clinton blew a $1.6 trillion dollar bubble, Bush’s bubble is probably (to early to even guess but its big) greater than $10 trillion, how big will Obama’s be? If he has another way, change we can believe in, I am looking forward to seeing it.
ReplyDeleteOH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD THE STEELERS SALE HAS NOTHING TO DO ABOUT TAXES!!!!!
ReplyDeleteIts all about the Roony's involvment with GAMBLING that precipitated the sale!
But of course, the Roony's are at the right hand of God, and they can have nothing whatsoever to do with sin.
BS!
ReplyDeletePRODUCTIVITY is a measure of who much output is created related to the input, which generally means how many people do how much work for how much money.
When I hear people start talking about "productivity," I always get worried, because they are mostly talking about forcing workers to do more for less. If ten people work at a company and create x output of goods or services, then five people doing the same work (overworked, stressed, sick, tired, drinking too much...) are considered to be REALLY PRODUCTIVE! Gee, ain't that swell!
The sorry truth is that high net income earners are the same sort of people that rarely use their own money; they long ago learned the adage that you should use "other people's money" to grow your business.
The current economic decline is directly attributable to not only Bush, but the "Reagan Revolution."
The funny thing is (not...) I actually heard some dipwad pundit on KDKA radio blathering to Kevin Miller yesterday...and he suggested that, "Ya know what? It may not be that bad if GM goes belly up. I don't see why we need to have this heavy industry anyway..." Miller, of course, just concurred. (Aside: Why is it that so many Right wing radio guys are fat? Just asking....) No heavy industry? So what happens when the next GOP hothead wants to build more tanks and trucks and guns and 'at? What do we do? Enlist a few thousand barista's to help us?
Clyde
It is my opinion the recent downturn and expected economic deficiencies can be directly attributed to obama and the media..
ReplyDeleteI deal with people, especially the majority shareholder of my Company, that have money and make investment decisions.. they are scaling back in a HUGE way as a result of obama's stated policy of raising taxes on those making >$250,000 per year (or, was it $200,000 or $150,000 per Biden or $125,000 per Richardson, or was it individuals, or what is families??)..
Think the wealthy are just going to sit back, bend over, pay more taxes and sing "Kumbaya"? Think only those making >$250,000 will get hurt? Think again, you liberal Einsteins. It's those below those numbers that will also get hurt. I make a 6-figure income as an executive.. my employer is cutting back.. I'm cutting back.. and my employees will see some cutbacks. Ergo, a slowdown in the economy.
I am enlightened by my young daughter.. the other day I suggested she and I go out for dinner.. she said "let's not spend the money. let's eat at home." She knows things are getting tight and will get tighter. Her CC bills are <50% of normal for the past 2 months.
Yes, this will be the obama recession, especially when some of his hare-brained policies are enacted, especially reversal of drilling rights and any, I repeat, ANY stupid "global warmimg"/carbon credit programs favored by the environmetalist whackos. Can you say $4.00 gasoline? See, I knew you could. [Drill Here. Drill Now.]
C'mon! get real here. If you've listened to the Right Wing over the years you know that:
ReplyDelete1) The successful Clinton economy was due to Reagan
2) The bad Bush economy was due to Clinton, 9/11, ACORN and Obama
3) The bad economy entering 2009 is due to Obama and ACORN
See? It's NEVER their fault!
Umm, kgc?
ReplyDeleteAre you saying that, rather than pay a marginal rate on his AGI over $250,000 that would be a whopping 2% higher,......your majority stockholder is willfully trying to make less money?
And that makes sense to you?
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ReplyDeleteHey KGC -
ReplyDeleteWhat business do you work for? I've got a rotten pumpkin that I really think you're boss we'll find to be a suitable replacement for you. It's been hollowed out, but I figure that's okay since it still has more brains than you.
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ReplyDeleteSo the rich are telling us poor people that the poor need to pay more taxes, because the rich are smarter and work harder than the lazy poor. People who make more money are by definition more productive than the poor. See, and the Republicans understand that. That is why the Republican Congress spent the bulk of the Bush Administration lowering taxes and exercising fiscal discipline by spending less. That's why the Bush treasury department exercised intelligent oversight and made sure that mortgages sold in the last eight years during the housing bubble were appropriate for the borrowers level of income. And because the government exercised due diligence, the mortgages bundled up as securitzed instruments were perfectly safe to use and sell as assets, because the buyer would be getting exactly the value the seller said it was.
ReplyDeleteYes, the rich work much harder than the people who take care of our parents in nursing homes, who answer their cries in the night when we are too busy to have them in our homes. The rich work harder than the people who take care of our toddlers because the rich want to make more money to buy stuff; people who are expected to teach our toddlers even though we tell them to go play their video games. The rich work harder than garbage men, cleaning crews who work overnight (who are mostly illegals), than nurses who work twelve hour shifts because the insurance companies of the rich don't want to pay what the hospitals actually pay in salaries, the the hair stylists who spend eight hours on their feet and take home a few dollars in tips.
Yes the rich are so much smarter than us poor people. The rich who bought houses with mortgages with adjustable rates an/or interest only terms, and then decided to walk away and stick the banks or mortgage companies. Or the rich bankers who issued the mortgages in a bubble climate knowing (because they are smarter than the rest of us) that the buyers couldn't make the payments if the adjustable rate shot up when the bubble burst. Those smart rich people should be excused from paying taxes because it is more patriotic not to pay taxes when there are two wars going because the rich do more for the country by doing more for themselves.
Yeah, that fruitcake Obama. Doesn't he know the free market will take care of pollution, green house gases and climate change. The free market will find ways to protect the important people, and the rest of he smelly masses, well, they aren't productive anyway. It's not like we need any improvements to infrastructure, anyway, if we do, the free market will take care of it.
Yep, it is a good thing we stoopid liberals have rich people to tell us what to do. Just like the slave owners did with the child-like negros.
RKT:
ReplyDelete"And equally objectively, the stock market did take a bit of a dive after the election."
The market goes up and down and up and down and UP and DOWN every single day. Also, do you lend any credence to the idea of a limited "spite sell-off"? I do.
"If the recession ends on January 21st, then I don't imagine that you would be willing to give credit to President Bush for doing most of the work to make that happen..."
Pish, give us some credit. President Bush is having a good year. It may be that he's given up on so many people he actually listening to some Democrats! But seriously, he has been pitch-perfect on the transition, and oh by the way chaired a three ring circus that acted swiftly and sensibly to deal with an ongoing economic crisis.
"In this case, with things as bad as they are, I don't see any president or any governmental policy being able to bring our problems to a stop."
You're spotting us two years? Let's say 18 months. Yes we can.
On Dan Rooney:
Lobbying to reform the tax code and then strategically positioning some assets before the changes go into effect is not Montgomery Burnsy, and it's certainly not hypocritical. He will try to complete a useful transaction for his family's Steelers, and he may succeed or fail and that will be that. For the rest of his life, his investment gains will be taxed at a more generous rate (and the Rooneys possess a broad-ranging investment portfolio) And he made that happen, or worked hard to. Mr. Rooney is a businessmen and gentlemen absolutely on par with Andrew Carnegie (though like Mr. Carnegie, he must reign in and strategically oppose some of his business partners), and he is inspired by the possibility of new achievements by our American republic. And that will be the end of it.
John K: Yep it is. If you liberals had any principles, as in Dan Rooney has none, then you would support Hussein Obama's tax increases by positioning assets to pay the most in taxes. After all, that is what you want everyone else to do. Nothing stops a lefty from paying more taxes. Nothing except their own hypocracy. Kimber, just admit you acted stupid and were wrong. It will be easier on you mentally.
ReplyDeleteJohn K: Just think of all the homes and jobs you left wing kooks have wiped out because of you tax increase threat and your economic plans. Shame. And Limbaugh is right again. Kimber proves it. Ignorance causes this country more in economic wealth than anything else.
ReplyDeleteJohn K: Now look at the cities you left wingers run. Then look at the cities that you left wingers are asking for bailouts. First you take away jobs from the city with your excessive taxes as in Pittsburgh. Then you whine when people with brains move to low tax areas. Then you ask the govt for a bailout. And you think we trust you with our money. LOL LOL Burn and Fitzgerald actaully think they are successful. LMAO LMAO
ReplyDeleteKGC.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the insight from above. We peons appreciate your largesse and superior intellect.
High net income folks like you and your country club buds aren't cutting back because of Obama, you're cutting back because, at this moment, no one knows where the economy (which had nothing to do with the man who isn't yet President...) is going and there is little safe haven out there. Of course, in the end, you need someone to blame for this whole mess...and like most management, you are unable to look inward and admit any fault whatsoever.
Detroit's problems? All because of those damn unions! Financial services meltdown? All the fault of stupid people who got in over their heads. Or is it the CRA?
Of course, here's something maybe you and your daughter don't understand; while you can skip a night out at your local watering hole and feel all warm and fuzzy about it, many more people are trying to decide how to pay their mortgages or buy diapers or Christmas presents for their daughters. Your only pain is the pain you cause the rest of us.
Clyde
little boy,
ReplyDeleteHow would Dan Rooney "position assets" so that he would pay capital gains tax on his purchase from his brothers?