The Obama rep talking to David right now is correct. Obama has many issues under his Issues heading on his website. There are TWENTY subheadings, in fact.
Hillary has a fact sheet: PDF (here) that includes a bullet-point list on what she did as first lady and senator. Her website doesn't
Obama lists his positions on several women's issues on his page. To Hillary's credit, she mentions pay equity while Obama doesn't, but mostly its All About Hillary.
John K. says: Sen. Hillary sure has done a lot for women. She has made it acceptable for women to stand next to their husband on the podium (McGreevey and now Spitzer) and be made fools of while their husbands cheat on them with prostitutes. Gotta love that Hillary.
If Hillary were not to send out Geraldine Ferraro telling the nation that Obama is where he is now because he is black, maybe the latteer would be a bit friendlier to her type of women.
Maria - you've lost this one. Unless you have conveniently overlooked this fact - Obama has plenty of support from women, including some high profile women such as Caroline Kennedy, Maria Shriver, and of course Oprah, but I'm sure you and Geraldine Ferraro will discount her support because Oprah is black.
The fact that you're trying to say that Barack is the one taking pages out of the right's playbook - now that is laughable. The Clinton campaign is running a textbook Rovian campaign...for someone who is so anti-right wing you sure are starting to sound like one of them.
If you think for one minute that Barack Obama, a man who was raised by a single mother, and who gives praise to his wife throughout his last book for her ability to rise to the challenges of being a working mother, doesn't care about women's issues well then I think you're smoking whatever it is that Bill didn't inhale. Move on to some real issues instead of resorting to sounding like a member of the Clinton campaign.
Maria - regarding Harry and Louise...Clinton has been attacking Obama's health plan which is almost exactly the same as his. Obama's attack ads may have hit too close to home but they were accurate - people who cannot afford to pay for health insurance cannot afford to pay fines or have their wages garnished when they do not sign up for insurance before the deadline.
Also, saying that social security, in it's present state is a "crisis" is not inaccurate. Had Obama mentioned privatizing social security, well, I would say then yes he was in agreement with the conservatives.
If you want someone who is going to only tell you everything you want to hear - go vote for Clinton with Maria. If you want a candidate who is going to tell you the hard truth that needs to be said , even when its not popular with the public, vote for Obama.
If you want someone who voted against Cheney's Energy Bill then vote for Hillary.
If you want someone who voted: - Aye on the committee reports & - Aye on the conference report & - Aye for the 2005 giveaway to the Oil and Gas Industry,
- people who cannot afford to pay for health insurance cannot afford to pay fines or have their wages garnished when they do not sign up for insurance before the deadline.
So then why does Barack have mandates for peoplewith kids?
I have listened to Obama and don't appreciate being lectured too. You know those excesses of the sixties... code for blame the women. His body language ( we feminine types pay attention for those cues) shows disdain for Hillary. This is supposed to be a democracy and women can be for Obama. Just stop trying to defend him as though he is a feminist. By the way men can be feminists. Just like anti-war voters need to stop glossing over the fact that he wasn't in the Senate to vote. And.... voted to fund the war EVERYTIME. He even voted AGAINST troop withdraw. Seems like a good ole boy. Talk about telling you what you want to haer and then doing what is politically expedient!!! I am stunned by the publics' LACK of critical thinking.
Hillary voted to declare crucial elements of the Iranian army a terrorist organization.
Bomb, bomb, bomb....
Are you worried about your teenage daughters? Bombing Iran will cause an endless missile volley with Israel, and your and my little darlings will have to escape a draft.
She is McCain Ultra. All the zing, but less carbs.
WOW.. just checked in ... what a firestorm. As an Obama supporter and a male, I'd like to say that my vote has nothing to do with race, gender or who tells better lies. It's this: Hillary can't win in November. And this time it's about winning.
Well, don't worry, Hillary will likely win PA. The question is by how much. It might, might be a 60-40 split in her favor, but we've 5+ weeks to go.
Also, at the rate things are going, Barack's going to be ahead in the delegate count by the convention. No matter how hard she and Bill try, there's likely little they can do to change things drastically. The best they can hope for are re-votes/caucuses in FL and MI, and even then it's likely the delegates they gain won't put them over the top. They may try to cajole, beg, threaten, et al. come Denver but I can't see the party dumping the delegate count leader. Get used to Barack Hussein Obama, people. He's gonna be our (the Dems) next nominee. And yes, I am VERY happy about that.
I am not a fan of either candidate, but Hillary's behavior, her Rovian tactics - and that's what they are, Maria, there is no way around that - have pushed me today to change my registration from I to D for the primary so I can vote for Obama.
You cannot say you are about change, about changing how things are done in Washington, and then engage in the slimiest of tactics, from fear mongering to race baiting, which is exactly how Washington has worked for eons.
Again, I am not some Obama acolyte. But don't haul out some BS charge like Obama's lack of a "women" page on his Web site as a way of saying he is somehow anti-woman (his body language aside, anon 12:59. You're joking about that, right?).
Neither of these candidates are near what this country needs or deserves. That would be Russ Feingold. But all Hillary has done is show me that she's happy to play the same old dirty politics, damn the consequences.
I know many Ds keeps saying they'll support whoever the nominee is, but if she ends up being the nominee via superdelegates and stealing already pledged delegates, I doubt I'll be able to bring myself to do so. Because if she gets the nomination that way, then I have no evidence to suggest she'll be any better a president than McCain.
And, heck, we all know that Hillary thinks McCain would be a better president than Obama anyway, eh?
I don't know what you mean dirty politics. She is just on her game and calls him on his. She is smart tough and experienced. I suppose she is supposed to let the little man slide on by don't call him on anything. I am glad to see that is standing up for herself and other strong people. By the way.. no one has explained why Obama has not recognized women's issues in their on right?
Nice. I let you all dump on Hillary with barely a word in comments in various posts because I was trying not to say anything against Obama in case he is the nominee.
The first time I play by the same rules you all play by and you take your ball and go home.
This is the problem with our party. EVERYONE has an issue, and if you don't talk about yours/mine enough, we'll fight about it till we rip each other to shreds. Do really think Barack Obama will forget women's issues in January? Or maybe he'll pull a Spitzer? Get real. Hilary can't win the nomination without tactics that, obviously, most democrats find hostile at best. The Victory in November the most important issue. Unite and win or divide and get ready for the Iran War.
In the first place, so what if I take my ball and go home?
In the second place, I'm only an Obama supporter by default. I'm not the least bit in love with the guy.
In the third place, I can't understand how an intelligent woman like you falls for Hillary's schtick. If she DOES become president, she will betray you. You heard it here first.
In the fourth place, this is not the first blog I've dropped out of (temporarily) because the Clintonistas were holding their hands over their ears and shouting, "LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"
In the fifth place, you should know me well enough by now that I welcome people arguing with the facts I lay out. The only reason I can figure that would keep you from flailing me is that you don't have an argument.
In the sixth place, I still think you're great, a staunch feminist as I am, and a very smart person. But you're very, very wrong to support a weasel like Hillary, in my not-nearly-as-humble-as-it-ought-to-be opinion.
In the seventh place, you are not going to change your mind, are you?Neither am I.
In the eighth place, see you in Mid-Nov, while Bush is getting McCain ready to take over.
Anon 1:25, must be because he's black. At least Hillary's BFF Geraldine Ferraro seems to think so.
And, yes, lying about wink-wink, nudge-nudge deals with the Canadians, darkening Obama's appearance on campaign videos, fear-mongering ads about red phones - yes, those are all perfectly appropriate ways of calling the "little man" out.
BTW, is "little man" code for "boy," which is code for something else?
Obama is in favor of liquefied coal ONLY if it can be burned cleanly and results in a "20 percent reduction" in the greenhouse gas emissions of conventional fuels.
Funny how facts about Obama's hollow voting record get exposed, questions about his judgement get asked and the Obama followers go spastic because they don't want anyone to notice that they can't answer the queries. Hillary gets real about the state of this country and everyone calls her dirty politician and fearmongering. Well quess what? I don't think that it is dirty politics when you expose secret meetings that took place between your opponents' campaign and foreign governments. How is it that when Hillary challenges Barack about misleading fliers sent to voters just before an election dirty politics? On the other hand, accusing people of color of being racist because they do not support him is pretty low in my book.
Well, anyone could say that they were for liquidfied coal under those circumstances. He is so uninformed about the environment. He still believes that there is a green way to have nuclear energy. Of course, he got all those donations from nuclear. Funny how he never mentions this or his true stance on nuclear to all of his young enthusiastic followers. I wonder if he knows how a windmill works.
Well, act like a racist and I guess you'll get called one, regardless of your color. If I had called Hillary "little lady," what would the response have been, eh?
Where Barack Stands "From the first moment a woman dared to speak that hope - dared to believe that the American Dream was meant for her too - ordinary women have taken on extraordinary odds to give their daughters the chance for something else; for a life more equal, more free, and filled with more opportunity than they ever had. In so many ways we have succeeded, but in so many areas we have much work left to do.”
~ Barack Obama, Speech in Washington, DC, 11/10/05
Sounds right to me. Oh, and it is right there on Senator Obama's website from which I copied it verbatim.
The headline of the link repudiates Senator Clinton's statement that the bill was "a big step backwards on the path to clean, renewable energy" with the following: "No, it was a boon to renewable fuel industry." Then the article continues to list the ways this bill was a "boon to renewable fuel industry" and not a "big step backwards."
After getting a nasty push poll from the Hillary folks the other day, say all you want about her positions -- they are BS or she would be talking with some substance. She has nothin' -- and she won't be satisfied until she drags the whole party with her... and to think I would have voted for her in February.
Senator Obama has a mandate for children for the simple reason that 1) children cannot make decisions for themselves and 2) programs exist already which allow parents with financial difficulties to obtain low cost (or no cost) healthcare for their children.
No such programs exist to assist adults except in a very few states -- and the "hardship" exceptions are not working well in Massachusetts. Indeed, they have left lots of people completely out of healthcare and others are facing fines they cannot afford.
Notice the heading Civil Rights, which covers women. If people like Geraldine Ferraro set this up as a blacks versus women thing, both sides will lose, both sides with be embittered, and both sides will never see their dream be realized. But Clinton is OK with Geraldine Ferraro's statements, and has run a truly despicable campaign.
As for Obama's record on women, let's not get carried away here. Watch this video from a Board Member of the National Organization for Women.
And let's not forget it was Hillary's campaign that lied about Obama's position on some women's issues. Hey, I got a suggestion for the Hillary campaign: mail that flier you sent out in New Hampshire to every single Catholic in Pennsylvania!
Trying to start an argument over women's issues is typical Clintonian bull. And it's bait to try to get Obama to defend himself on unfavorable ground in Pennsylvania. Fortunately, that won't happen. Keep on saying Obama's anti-choice. That's fine with me. I hope all of Pittsburgh hears about that..
Is he really? Is that how he got one of the highest ratings from the League of Conservation Voters?
He still believes that there is a "green way to have nuclear energy."
Actually, Nuclear energy is the cleanest of the large scale energy options that we have at the moment. You want to reduce global warming and climate change while still being able to meet our energy needs? Right now the only option is more Nuclear power plants. This is a debate for my blog "Green is Good" where I have discussed this at length in several posts. I will say this - Obama was the only Democrat out of the big three who was being realistic about Nuclear energy. During one of the earlier debates both John Edwards and HRC made pledges to put a stop to building coal plants AND they said they would not be in favor of Nuclear power. Obama said he would be in favor of more Nuclear as long as they could figure out a way to store the waste in a fair and secure manner. This makes sense - France gets 80% of their electricity from Nuclear - people there aren't freaking out and are probably breathing easier unlike those of us in Western PA who get to inhale toxins from all of the coal plants in our region. "Of course, he got all those donations from nuclear."
Oh yeah, where is your proof? Sure, he gets individual donations from people who work in pretty much every industry - Big Pharma, Energy, etc, so what is he supposed to do? Put a disclaimer on his website "If you work in the following industries please do not donate to my campaign."
"I wonder if he knows how a windmill works."
Actually, Obama was just out at the Gamesa Wind Turbine manufacturing plant on the other side of the state. If he didn't know before I'm sure he learned a thing or two about windmills and wind energy today.
Some of this has probably been covered in the above comments, but I'll just add my 2c.
Number one, the first issue under Civil Rights is the gender income gap; there are several other references to women's civil rights issues within that space.
Number two, you'll notice there is no "race" section under Issues either. I think this must be simply how he chooses to approach all such issues.
In addition, he has info on Women's History Month prominently displayed on his home page.
Now, up above you got into some of his energy or iraq war votes, and that's fine...
... but clearly you are trying to indicate in this post that we should suspect Obama cares little for women's issues. That is a distortion, based on your evidence. There is a smorgasbord of data about women's issues on the website you mention, and on many other of his websites.
12:59 "His body language shows disdain for Hillary." Why should that be a surprise? My body language right about now would show disdain for Hillary, too, with the havoc she is releasing on the Democratic Party. That "body language" tells me NOTHING about his attitude towards women in general.
Nuclear energy is not clean energy. You are as uninformed as your candidate. Try reading Helen Coldecott(another ,oops.. smart woman). Besides being dirty bomb material the mining of uranium is dirty. And, the processing and running a nuclear power plant can not become independent from electricity for 30 years. If nuclear is so clean and safe then why will no insurance company insure it? Instead the taxpayers are footing that very expensive insurance policy.
Somewhere between Obama's campaign staffer referring to Hillary as a monster and Hillary's attempt to lure Obama in a VP position, this civil war that has pitted traditional democrats against the militant wing of the far-left has gotten really interesting. In the end, it might end up showing the voters just how incompetent these people really are.
So what should we do? Obviously, we need someone who knows what he's doing.
Obama has a mandate for children's health insurance because children do not have a choice.
But I think Bram Reichbaum pretty much destroyed your arguments, Maria.
As to the person who said we need someone who knows what they're doing, that's already John McCain, who admittedly doesn't know a damn thing when it comes to the economy.
Good luck with that in a year where the election is a prominent issue.
C.H. that fact that you list Dumb and Dumber as one of your favorite movies and you're voting for McCain tells me all I need to know about you. Conservatism has held back this country long enough, it's our turn now. Unite and vote OBAMA on 4/22!!!
Anon - did I say Nuclear was the ideal solution? No. Did Obama? No. I am in agreement with him that is it a better alternative to burning coal. Nuclear is clean in that it burns and emits zero GHG emissions. If you want to start talking cradle to the grave then I don't know of any truly "clean" energy sources.
Nothing is totally clean and to use the suggestion of cradle to grave is absurd. It is another way of saying that you are not very informed either. To completely discount the environmental impact of mining the uranium and the fact that the plant will be electric dependent for 30 years is adsurd. Is this the new change? Just close your eyes and follow. That's what republicans do.
So Anonymous, what are our alternatives? How is the term "Cradle to the grave" absurd? Please explain. The mining of anything is harmful to the environment - and so is the planting of biofuel crops like corn for ethanol.
My argument is that Nuclear is better than any large scale electricity production alternatives we have which, at the moment, is coal and natural gas. Do you not agree with this statement? The ideal "clean" energy solution is large scale solar power which is already in production out west, but it is going to take a while before the costs of building large scale solar plants are cheaper than other fuels.
The bill exempts oil and gas industries from some clean-water laws, streamlines permits for oil wells and power lines on public lands, and helps the hydropower industry appeal environmental restrictions. One obscure provision would repeal a Depression-era law that has prevented consolidation of public utilities, potentially transforming the nation's electricity markets.
[snip]
For example, it exempts oil and gas companies from Safe Drinking Water Act requirements when they inject fluids -- including some carcinogens -- into the earth at high pressure, a process known as hydraulic fracturing. Betty Anthony, director for exploration and production at the American Petroleum Institute, said states already regulate the process, but residents of Alabama, Virginia, West Virginia and other states have complained that it has polluted groundwater in their communities.
[snip]
Meanwhile, the measure will streamline Bureau of Land Management drilling permits -- even though the Bush administration already has granted a record number of permits on BLM land.
"This bill will allow America's most profitable companies to pollute our water supplies," said David Alberswerth of the Wilderness Society. "They're the kings of Capitol Hill."
[snip]
The bill's most far-reaching provision may be the repeal of the Public Utility Holding Company Act of 1935, which has blocked the owners of utilities from owning other companies and has prevented mergers in the electricity industry.
Consumer advocates warn that the repeal will trigger a flurry of mergers and acquisitions by banks, oil firms and even foreign countries, leading to increased rates and Enron-style frauds.
[GEE, that didn't happen, did it?]
"This will be one of the biggest economic changes in the country in 70 years," said Lynn Hargis of the liberal consumer group Public Citizen.
Schmuck said... In the third place, I can't understand how an intelligent woman like you falls for Hillary's schtick. If she DOES become president, she will betray you. You heard it here first.
How does anyone fall for any of their schticks? Anyone who gets to be a serious candidate for Prez has made tons of compromises along the way and no one is perfect. (That includes Obama voting for Chief Justice Roberts and Hillary voting against him or Obama championing Lieberman over Lamont.)
I think that Obama and Hillary are extremely close on the issues and I don't believe the hype on Obama which puts Hillary and her years of work for children, women and healthcare ahead of Obama for me (And, yes, I believe Krugman when he says her plan is better).
I will restate that I will support the winner.
Still friends Schultz said... "He also has a penchant for liquefied coal."
Obama is in favor of liquefied coal ONLY if it can be burned cleanly and results in a "20 percent reduction" in the greenhouse gas emissions of conventional fuels.
Next.
He only went for the "ONLY" when he faced a shitload of criticism for being for liquefied coal in the first place. He's pro coal cause he's from IL, same as some Dems in PA are pro coal.
jaywillie said... Obama has a mandate for children's health insurance because children do not have a choice.
Duh! Still a mandate! How can poor parents afford insurance better than poor non parents? And you can thank Hillary for S-CHIP.
Bram said... Now, up above you got into some of his energy or iraq war votes, and that's fine...
Bram, I just love it when you give your approval of what I should or should not blog on! I think we've been here before, but it's particularly galling when you get to tell me what should be important or worthy for me to be concerned about when it's women's issues that we're discussing. I am not the first female blogger to have noticed this anyway.
Clearly I was stating that I am not opposed to criticism of Barack in general -- only the trumped up, ludicrous charges of misogyny (and of being "empty").
You still haven't answered why, by your logic, Hillary Clinton doesn't care about black people at all. She doesn't mention their issues ONCE on her website, after all! Even Barack throws the women he hates a dozen to thirty bones throughout his website.
Where are the other female bloggers accusing Barack of being sexist or whatever? Not that this will be proof that it is true, but I need to go make post comments wrecking them as well.
Hillary has worked for people. Doesn't matter what you look like, she just worked for people. She walked door to door. She organized also, not to take anything away from Obama. I just wish that people would acknowledge that the woman does have a history of working for the under served and the middle class. She is the first woman to make it this far. Obama, the first African-American let's not dminish either one by neglecting what they have done to get where they are today. Let's also not forget the people who have chipped at this path that has now become a main street in our politics.
I have heard plenty of sexist remarks on this campaign trail, than I have racial remarks, I am not suprised at all his site does not have womens issue page... Go Hillary Go...
72 comments:
Yes, because he is such a mysogynist.
You'd think someone running against a woman would have a women's issue page, especially as Dem presidential candidates usually have one.
Here it is:
Women
Noticeably, that's under People for Obama not what issues Obama is for.
In other words, ladies, it's OK for you to be for him, but your issues don't rate by themselves.
Is not like, you know, they are real, important issues or anything.
but my point, Maria, was that you seemed to be implying the presence of sexism on his part by the absence of a "women's issue" page on the website.
And, my point is that women's issues don't seem to rate very high on his list becuase they're not even on his list of issues.
Can I be any CLEARER???
Maria - you are delussional...and blogging BS like this just wreaks of desparation. Just like the Clinton campaign you're clutching at straws.
In case you missed it please go to the Women for Obama page and try again.
In case you missed it, please go to the Issues section and try again.
"Faith" and "Families" are under issues.
Veterans and Environment are both under "Issues" and "People."
Women are under "People" who are for Obama.
Where is his MAN PAGE?
Hillary has a fact sheet:
PDF (here) that includes a bullet-point list on what she did as first lady and senator. Her website doesn't
Obama lists his positions on several women's issues on his page. To Hillary's credit, she mentions pay equity while Obama doesn't, but mostly its All About Hillary.
Read and compare.
Schultz, would YOU like it if he didn't have the environment under his issues page?
Hillary has a Women's page under issues:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/women/?6efef2b0
that mentions what she's actually DONE to help women.
I'm sorry, is the fact that she's done stuff to help women is something to use against her now?
Yes, We're in Bizarro World here, folks!
John K. says: Sen. Hillary sure has done a lot for women. She has made it acceptable for women to stand next to their husband on the podium (McGreevey and now Spitzer) and be made fools of while their husbands cheat on them with prostitutes. Gotta love that Hillary.
Nothing wrong with doing stuff for women. I get that she mentions Women in her drop-down menu and Obama doesn't. Yep.
If Hillary were not to send out Geraldine Ferraro telling the nation that Obama is where he is now because he is black, maybe the latteer would be a bit friendlier to her type of women.
Barck is getting death threats as we speak.
"...her type of women"
What the hell does that even mean???
Maybe you want to join this group.
just wanted to get your goat...
Otherwise, it's not too funny as she is destroying our party.
Maria,
I apologize.
I will gladly vote for Hillary if she wins the nomination.
Of course, I think that would only be in an alternative universe. Get her back to ourw.
Why don't you just continue to ignore Obama's use of the Right's talking points (talk about trying to destroy what the party stands for)?
How he used Harry & Louise ads against Clinton. Thanks, Barack!
How he buys into the Social Security is in crisis talking point. Thanks, Barack!
How he talks about the “excesses” of the 1960s and 1970s. Thanks, Barack!
Maria - you've lost this one. Unless you have conveniently overlooked this fact - Obama has plenty of support from women, including some high profile women such as Caroline Kennedy, Maria Shriver, and of course Oprah, but I'm sure you and Geraldine Ferraro will discount her support because Oprah is black.
The fact that you're trying to say that Barack is the one taking pages out of the right's playbook - now that is laughable. The Clinton campaign is running a textbook Rovian campaign...for someone who is so anti-right wing you sure are starting to sound like one of them.
Here are some more links on the women's issues.
Why so many women are supporting Barack Obama
Barack's statement on International Women's Day
If you think for one minute that Barack Obama, a man who was raised by a single mother, and who gives praise to his wife throughout his last book for her ability to rise to the challenges of being a working mother, doesn't care about women's issues well then I think you're smoking whatever it is that Bill didn't inhale. Move on to some real issues instead of resorting to sounding like a member of the Clinton campaign.
Maria - regarding Harry and Louise...Clinton has been attacking Obama's health plan which is almost exactly the same as his. Obama's attack ads may have hit too close to home but they were accurate - people who cannot afford to pay for health insurance cannot afford to pay fines or have their wages garnished when they do not sign up for insurance before the deadline.
Also, saying that social security, in it's present state is a "crisis" is not inaccurate. Had Obama mentioned privatizing social security, well, I would say then yes he was in agreement with the conservatives.
If you want someone who is going to only tell you everything you want to hear - go vote for Clinton with Maria. If you want a candidate who is going to tell you the hard truth that needs to be said , even when its not popular with the public, vote for Obama.
Schultz,
If you want someone who voted against Cheney's Energy Bill then vote for Hillary.
If you want someone who voted:
- Aye on the committee reports &
- Aye on the conference report &
- Aye for the 2005 giveaway to the Oil and Gas Industry,
then vote for Obama.
He also has a penchant for liquefied coal.
- people who cannot afford to pay for health insurance cannot afford to pay fines or have their wages garnished when they do not sign up for insurance before the deadline.
So then why does Barack have mandates for peoplewith kids?
I have listened to Obama and don't appreciate being lectured too. You know those excesses of the sixties... code for blame the women. His body language ( we feminine types pay attention for those cues) shows disdain for Hillary. This is supposed to be a democracy and women can be for Obama. Just stop trying to defend him as though he is a feminist. By the way men can be feminists. Just like anti-war voters need to stop glossing over the fact that he wasn't in the Senate to vote. And.... voted to fund the war EVERYTIME. He even voted AGAINST troop withdraw. Seems like a good ole boy. Talk about telling you what you want to haer and then doing what is politically expedient!!! I am stunned by the publics' LACK of critical thinking.
You Clintonistas are laughable.
Hillary voted to declare crucial elements of the Iranian army a terrorist organization.
Bomb, bomb, bomb....
Are you worried about your teenage daughters? Bombing Iran will cause an endless missile volley with Israel, and your and my little darlings will have to escape a draft.
She is McCain Ultra. All the zing, but less carbs.
WOW.. just checked in ... what a firestorm. As an Obama supporter and a male, I'd like to say that my vote has nothing to do with race, gender or who tells better lies. It's this: Hillary can't win in November. And this time it's about winning.
Who are you to sat that HIllary can't win in November. You are assuming a lot. And, why do you think that she can't win?
Well, don't worry, Hillary will likely win PA. The question is by how much. It might, might be a 60-40 split in her favor, but we've 5+ weeks to go.
Also, at the rate things are going, Barack's going to be ahead in the delegate count by the convention. No matter how hard she and Bill try, there's likely little they can do to change things drastically. The best they can hope for are re-votes/caucuses in FL and MI, and even then it's likely the delegates they gain won't put them over the top. They may try to cajole, beg, threaten, et al. come Denver but I can't see the party dumping the delegate count leader. Get used to Barack Hussein Obama, people. He's gonna be our (the Dems) next nominee. And yes, I am VERY happy about that.
- Shawn
This is no fun. I'm outta here. See you in November after the elections.
I am not a fan of either candidate, but Hillary's behavior, her Rovian tactics - and that's what they are, Maria, there is no way around that - have pushed me today to change my registration from I to D for the primary so I can vote for Obama.
You cannot say you are about change, about changing how things are done in Washington, and then engage in the slimiest of tactics, from fear mongering to race baiting, which is exactly how Washington has worked for eons.
Again, I am not some Obama acolyte. But don't haul out some BS charge like Obama's lack of a "women" page on his Web site as a way of saying he is somehow anti-woman (his body language aside, anon 12:59. You're joking about that, right?).
Neither of these candidates are near what this country needs or deserves. That would be Russ Feingold. But all Hillary has done is show me that she's happy to play the same old dirty politics, damn the consequences.
I know many Ds keeps saying they'll support whoever the nominee is, but if she ends up being the nominee via superdelegates and stealing already pledged delegates, I doubt I'll be able to bring myself to do so. Because if she gets the nomination that way, then I have no evidence to suggest she'll be any better a president than McCain.
And, heck, we all know that Hillary thinks McCain would be a better president than Obama anyway, eh?
A: I lived in the South
B: National Polls tell me so
I don't know what you mean dirty politics. She is just on her game and calls him on his. She is smart tough and experienced. I suppose she is supposed to let the little man slide on by don't call him on anything. I am glad to see that is standing up for herself and other strong people. By the way.. no one has explained why Obama has not recognized women's issues in their on right?
Schmuck,
Nice. I let you all dump on Hillary with barely a word in comments in various posts because I was trying not to say anything against Obama in case he is the nominee.
The first time I play by the same rules you all play by and you take your ball and go home.
wev
This is the problem with our party. EVERYONE has an issue, and if you don't talk about yours/mine enough, we'll fight about it till we rip each other to shreds. Do really think Barack Obama will forget women's issues in January? Or maybe he'll pull a Spitzer? Get real. Hilary can't win the nomination without tactics that, obviously, most democrats find hostile at best. The Victory in November the most important issue. Unite and win or divide and get ready for the Iran War.
By the way, Hillary will have plenty of time to work on Health Care and Women's issue from the VP's office.
And, I find Obama's tactics hostile and about half the party does not think he's the best candidate.
What I find almost funny is how freaked out some of you are that even one little corner of the blogosphere would be even 1/2 pro Hillary.
Like Margo said: "Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy night!"
Maria:
In the first place, so what if I take my ball and go home?
In the second place, I'm only an Obama supporter by default. I'm not the least bit in love with the guy.
In the third place, I can't understand how an intelligent woman like you falls for Hillary's schtick. If she DOES become president, she will betray you. You heard it here first.
In the fourth place, this is not the first blog I've dropped out of (temporarily) because the Clintonistas were holding their hands over their ears and shouting, "LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"
In the fifth place, you should know me well enough by now that I welcome people arguing with the facts I lay out. The only reason I can figure that would keep you from flailing me is that you don't have an argument.
In the sixth place, I still think you're great, a staunch feminist as I am, and a very smart person. But you're very, very wrong to support a weasel like Hillary, in my not-nearly-as-humble-as-it-ought-to-be opinion.
In the seventh place, you are not going to change your mind, are you?Neither am I.
In the eighth place, see you in Mid-Nov, while Bush is getting McCain ready to take over.
Anon 1:25, must be because he's black. At least Hillary's BFF Geraldine Ferraro seems to think so.
And, yes, lying about wink-wink, nudge-nudge deals with the Canadians, darkening Obama's appearance on campaign videos, fear-mongering ads about red phones - yes, those are all perfectly appropriate ways of calling the "little man" out.
BTW, is "little man" code for "boy," which is code for something else?
"He also has a penchant for liquefied coal."
Obama is in favor of liquefied coal ONLY if it can be burned cleanly and results in a "20 percent reduction" in the greenhouse gas emissions of conventional fuels.
Next.
Funny how facts about Obama's hollow voting record get exposed, questions about his judgement get asked and the Obama followers go spastic because they don't want anyone to notice that they can't answer the queries. Hillary gets real about the state of this country and everyone calls her dirty politician and fearmongering. Well quess what? I don't think that it is dirty politics when you expose secret meetings that took place between your opponents' campaign and foreign governments. How is it that when Hillary challenges Barack about misleading fliers sent to voters just before an election dirty politics? On the other hand, accusing people of color of being racist because they do not support him is pretty low in my book.
Well, anyone could say that they were for liquidfied coal under those circumstances. He is so uninformed about the environment. He still believes that there is a green way to have nuclear energy. Of course, he got all those donations from nuclear. Funny how he never mentions this or his true stance on nuclear to all of his young enthusiastic followers. I wonder if he knows how a windmill works.
Well, act like a racist and I guess you'll get called one, regardless of your color. If I had called Hillary "little lady," what would the response have been, eh?
Apology for referring to him as a little man and not being clear. It was referring to the kid gloves that he must be handled with or he comes unglued.
Oh by the way, the racist statement is the sentiment of two people of color in this household.And some friends. Sorry to not make that clear either.
well, my wife doesn't like HRC either. So I guess we're even. :D
As someone without a vagina, I was wondering:
Does Hillary have a "men's issues" page on her site?
From Obama for America, about Women's issues --
Where Barack Stands
"From the first moment a woman dared to speak that hope - dared to believe that the American Dream was meant for her too - ordinary women have taken on extraordinary odds to give their daughters the chance for something else; for a life more equal, more free, and filled with more opportunity than they ever had. In so many ways we have succeeded, but in so many areas we have much work left to do.”
~ Barack Obama, Speech in Washington, DC, 11/10/05
Sounds right to me. Oh, and it is right there on Senator Obama's website from which I copied it verbatim.
Anybody who still believes Senator Clinton's canard about the 2005 energy bill should link to:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/292/
The headline of the link repudiates Senator Clinton's statement that the bill was "a big step backwards on the path to clean, renewable energy" with the following: "No, it was a boon to renewable fuel industry." Then the article continues to list the ways this bill was a "boon to renewable fuel industry" and not a "big step backwards."
After getting a nasty push poll from the Hillary folks the other day, say all you want about her positions -- they are BS or she would be talking with some substance. She has nothin' -- and she won't be satisfied until she drags the whole party with her... and to think I would have voted for her in February.
Senator Obama has a mandate for children for the simple reason that 1) children cannot make decisions for themselves and 2) programs exist already which allow parents with financial difficulties to obtain low cost (or no cost) healthcare for their children.
No such programs exist to assist adults except in a very few states -- and the "hardship" exceptions are not working well in Massachusetts. Indeed, they have left lots of people completely out of healthcare and others are facing fines they cannot afford.
Notice the heading Civil Rights, which covers women. If people like Geraldine Ferraro set this up as a blacks versus women thing, both sides will lose, both sides with be embittered, and both sides will never see their dream be realized. But Clinton is OK with Geraldine Ferraro's statements, and has run a truly despicable campaign.
As for Obama's record on women, let's not get carried away here. Watch this video from a Board Member of the National Organization for Women.
And let's not forget it was Hillary's campaign that lied about Obama's position on some women's issues. Hey, I got a suggestion for the Hillary campaign: mail that flier you sent out in New Hampshire to every single Catholic in Pennsylvania!
Trying to start an argument over women's issues is typical Clintonian bull. And it's bait to try to get Obama to defend himself on unfavorable ground in Pennsylvania. Fortunately, that won't happen. Keep on saying Obama's anti-choice. That's fine with me. I hope all of Pittsburgh hears about that..
"He is so uninformed about the environment."
Is he really? Is that how he got one of the highest ratings from the League of Conservation Voters?
He still believes that there is a "green way to have nuclear energy."
Actually, Nuclear energy is the cleanest of the large scale energy options that we have at the moment. You want to reduce global warming and climate change while still being able to meet our energy needs? Right now the only option is more Nuclear power plants. This is a debate for my blog "Green is Good" where I have discussed this at length in several posts. I will say this - Obama was the only Democrat out of the big three who was being realistic about Nuclear energy. During one of the earlier debates both John Edwards and
HRC made pledges to put a stop to building coal plants AND they said they would not be in favor of Nuclear power. Obama said he would be in favor of more Nuclear as long as they could figure out a way to store the waste in a fair and secure manner. This makes sense - France gets 80% of their electricity from Nuclear - people there aren't freaking out and are probably breathing easier unlike those of us in Western PA who get to inhale toxins from all of the coal plants in our region.
"Of course, he got all those donations from nuclear."
Oh yeah, where is your proof? Sure, he gets individual donations
from people who work in pretty much every industry - Big Pharma, Energy, etc, so what is he supposed to do? Put a disclaimer on his website "If you work in the following industries please do not donate to my campaign."
"I wonder if he knows how a windmill works."
Actually, Obama was just out at the Gamesa Wind Turbine manufacturing plant on the other side of the state. If he didn't know before I'm sure he learned a thing or two about windmills and wind energy today.
Maria,
Some of this has probably been covered in the above comments, but I'll just add my 2c.
Number one, the first issue under Civil Rights is the gender income gap; there are several other references to women's civil rights issues within that space.
Number two, you'll notice there is no "race" section under Issues either. I think this must be simply how he chooses to approach all such issues.
In addition, he has info on Women's History Month prominently displayed on his home page.
Now, up above you got into some of his energy or iraq war votes, and that's fine...
... but clearly you are trying to indicate in this post that we should suspect Obama cares little for women's issues. That is a distortion, based on your evidence. There is a smorgasbord of data about women's issues on the website you mention, and on many other of his websites.
A further illustration:
Hillary does indeed have a tab for Women under the Issues portion of her website.
She does not, however, have any tab for African-Americans.
Should we interpret from this that Hillary does not care about issues near and dear to African-Americans?
Of course not. That would be a silly accusation.
12:59 "His body language shows disdain for Hillary." Why should that be a surprise? My body language right about now would show disdain for Hillary, too, with the havoc she is releasing on the Democratic Party. That "body language" tells me NOTHING about his attitude towards women in general.
Nuclear energy is not clean energy. You are as uninformed as your candidate. Try reading Helen Coldecott(another ,oops.. smart woman). Besides being dirty bomb material the mining of uranium is dirty. And, the processing and running a nuclear power plant can not become independent from electricity for 30 years. If nuclear is so clean and safe then why will no insurance company insure it? Instead the taxpayers are footing that very expensive insurance policy.
Somewhere between Obama's campaign staffer referring to Hillary as a monster and Hillary's attempt to lure Obama in a VP position, this civil war that has pitted traditional democrats against the militant wing of the far-left has gotten really interesting. In the end, it might end up showing the voters just how incompetent these people really are.
So what should we do? Obviously, we need someone who knows what he's doing.
VOTE MCCAIN!
How about Hillary's AUMF vote or her Iran vote?
Talk about giving in to the Right.
Obama has a mandate for children's health insurance because children do not have a choice.
But I think Bram Reichbaum pretty much destroyed your arguments, Maria.
As to the person who said we need someone who knows what they're doing, that's already John McCain, who admittedly doesn't know a damn thing when it comes to the economy.
Good luck with that in a year where the election is a prominent issue.
C.H. that fact that you list Dumb and Dumber as one of your favorite movies and you're voting for McCain tells me all I need to know about you. Conservatism has held back this country long enough, it's our turn now. Unite and vote OBAMA on 4/22!!!
Anon - did I say Nuclear was the ideal solution? No. Did Obama? No. I am in agreement with him that is it a better alternative to burning coal. Nuclear is clean in that it burns and emits zero GHG emissions. If you want to start talking cradle to the grave then I don't know of any truly "clean" energy sources.
Nothing is totally clean and to use the suggestion of cradle to grave is absurd. It is another way of saying that you are not very informed either. To completely discount the environmental impact of mining the uranium and the fact that the plant will be electric dependent for 30 years is adsurd. Is this the new change? Just close your eyes and follow. That's what republicans do.
So Anonymous, what are our alternatives? How is the term "Cradle to the grave" absurd? Please explain. The mining of anything is harmful to the environment - and so is the planting of biofuel crops like corn for ethanol.
My argument is that Nuclear is better than any large scale electricity production alternatives we have which, at the moment, is coal and natural gas. Do you not agree with this statement? The ideal "clean" energy solution is large scale solar power which is already in production out west, but it is going to take a while before the costs of building large scale solar plants are cheaper than other fuels.
RE: "Anybody who still believes Senator Clinton's canard about the 2005 energy bill should link to:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/292/"
Here's what the WAPO had to say on it:
Energy Bill Raises Fears About Pollution, Fraud
"...a piñata of perks for energy industries."
[snip]
The bill exempts oil and gas industries from some clean-water laws, streamlines permits for oil wells and power lines on public lands, and helps the hydropower industry appeal environmental restrictions. One obscure provision would repeal a Depression-era law that has prevented consolidation of public utilities, potentially transforming the nation's electricity markets.
[snip]
For example, it exempts oil and gas companies from Safe Drinking Water Act requirements when they inject fluids -- including some carcinogens -- into the earth at high pressure, a process known as hydraulic fracturing. Betty Anthony, director for exploration and production at the American Petroleum Institute, said states already regulate the process, but residents of Alabama, Virginia, West Virginia and other states have complained that it has polluted groundwater in their communities.
[snip]
Meanwhile, the measure will streamline Bureau of Land Management drilling permits -- even though the Bush administration already has granted a record number of permits on BLM land.
"This bill will allow America's most profitable companies to pollute our water supplies," said David Alberswerth of the Wilderness Society. "They're the kings of Capitol Hill."
[snip]
The bill's most far-reaching provision may be the repeal of the Public Utility Holding Company Act of 1935, which has blocked the owners of utilities from owning other companies and has prevented mergers in the electricity industry.
Consumer advocates warn that the repeal will trigger a flurry of mergers and acquisitions by banks, oil firms and even foreign countries, leading to increased rates and Enron-style frauds.
[GEE, that didn't happen, did it?]
"This will be one of the biggest economic changes in the country in 70 years," said Lynn Hargis of the liberal consumer group Public Citizen.
Schmuck said...
In the third place, I can't understand how an intelligent woman like you falls for Hillary's schtick. If she DOES become president, she will betray you. You heard it here first.
How does anyone fall for any of their schticks? Anyone who gets to be a serious candidate for Prez has made tons of compromises along the way and no one is perfect. (That includes Obama voting for Chief Justice Roberts and Hillary voting against him or Obama championing Lieberman over Lamont.)
I think that Obama and Hillary are extremely close on the issues and I don't believe the hype on Obama which puts Hillary and her years of work for children, women and healthcare ahead of Obama for me (And, yes, I believe Krugman when he says her plan is better).
I will restate that I will support the winner.
Still friends
Schultz said... "He also has a penchant for liquefied coal."
Obama is in favor of liquefied coal ONLY if it can be burned cleanly and results in a "20 percent reduction" in the greenhouse gas emissions of conventional fuels.
Next.
He only went for the "ONLY" when he faced a shitload of criticism for being for liquefied coal in the first place. He's pro coal cause he's from IL, same as some Dems in PA are pro coal.
jaywillie said... Obama has a mandate for children's health insurance because children do not have a choice.
Duh! Still a mandate! How can poor parents afford insurance better than poor non parents? And you can thank Hillary for S-CHIP.
Bram said...
Now, up above you got into some of his energy or iraq war votes, and that's fine...
Bram, I just love it when you give your approval of what I should or should not blog on! I think we've been here before, but it's particularly galling when you get to tell me what should be important or worthy for me to be concerned about when it's women's issues that we're discussing. I am not the first female blogger to have noticed this anyway.
Way to take me out of context, yo!
Clearly I was stating that I am not opposed to criticism of Barack in general -- only the trumped up, ludicrous charges of misogyny (and of being "empty").
You still haven't answered why, by your logic, Hillary Clinton doesn't care about black people at all. She doesn't mention their issues ONCE on her website, after all! Even Barack throws the women he hates a dozen to thirty bones throughout his website.
Where are the other female bloggers accusing Barack of being sexist or whatever? Not that this will be proof that it is true, but I need to go make post comments wrecking them as well.
Hillary has worked for people. Doesn't matter what you look like, she just worked for people. She walked door to door. She organized also, not to take anything away from Obama. I just wish that people would acknowledge that the woman does have a history of working for the under served and the middle class. She is the first woman to make it this far. Obama, the first African-American let's not dminish either one by neglecting what they have done to get where they are today. Let's also not forget the people who have chipped at this path that has now become a main street in our politics.
I have heard plenty of sexist remarks on this campaign trail, than I have racial remarks, I am not suprised at all his site does not have womens issue page...
Go Hillary Go...
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