Prosecute the torture.

December 19, 2008

In Case You Missed It,

Here's Tony On Rick Warren. He begins:

One day, someone who doesn't believe in God is going to be elected president of the United States. When that happens, I, for one, will be a very happy Christian.

By the time the inauguration rolls around, a non-religious president would probably do something radical with the time currently allotted to preachers and religious leaders.

Such a president would be free to assign the preacher's traditional slot to a speaker who isn't encumbered by doctrinal biases or culture war baggage. Imagine the possibilities.

Wouldn't it be nice to hear from an American -- even one who hasn't been to a church or synagogue in decades -- deliver a pithy, but memorable speech about what it means to be an American in perilous times?

That day, I'd be one happy snappy agnostic. Tony ends with:
Still, Rick Warren isn't all bad. Conservative evangelicals despise him for his relatively liberal stances on environmental stewardship, global poverty, combating HIV/AIDs and his openness to traditionally liberal social justice causes.

He's considered a theological lightweight by anyone who has actually listened to one of his sermons. Rick Warren has more in common with the speakers down at the Rotary Club than the fire and brimstone preachers who made Calvinism America's unofficial civil religion for a while.

Take comfort, all ye liberals and progressives, in the fact that Barack Obama is using Rick Warren as much as Rick Warren is using him. This is all about politics -- it isn't a meeting of the minds.

Go read the rest. You'll be glad you did.

31 comments:

Maria said...

He's virulently anti-gay and anti-choice and anti-women:

I also called the church and pretended to be a local church-shopper with a few innocent questions. Here's a part of the conversation that you might find interesting:

LIZARD: I've always had a woman pastor. Can you tell me how many of your services [of which there are DOZENS each week] are led by women?"

RECEPTIONIST: "Well, none!"

LIZARD: "Really? Why not?"

RECEPTIONIST: "We believe that women can have very important leadership roles in the church, but that only men are ministers."

LIZARD: "So, tell me about some of the other 'leadership roles' women hold in your church."

RECEPTIONIST: "Well, we have lots of women employees, but not, like, managers or supervisors. Women can do a lot of things, but there always has to be a man, like, OVER them, you know."

LIZARD: "Oh? Why is that?"

RECEPTIONIST: "It's Biblical."

I desperately wanted to say "No, it's missionary!" But I didn't.

John K. said...

John K: I love this Rick Warren stuff. It proves three things, 1. Hussein Obama will throw left wing kooks under the bus just as fast as he threw his grandmother. 2. Olbermouth will allow Hussein Obama to commit any crime and still defend him.(his rationalization of this Warren issue last night had me on the floor laughing) AND 3. I was right along about Hussein Obama. The guy has no morals and principles. Gee just like a lot of liberals. Literally, rolling on the floor laughing my --- off. I was oh so right.

John K. said...

John K: Left wing kooks, I have said this before and will say it again, YOU BEEN HAD. LOL LOL

John K. said...

John K: The next four years are going to be interesting. Hussein Obama does not do well in press conferences when he is asked a question off subject. It will be funny to watch the press defend his actions all the while he is scolding and berating them for asking tough questions. How long will the press tolerate this? In the case of Olbermouth, forever. Hussein Obama can dump all over Olbermouth and even you Dayvoe and your response will be, "Please sir, may I have another."

gtl said...

There are a stunning number of people around here who think that President-elect Obama is the anti-christ.

Seriously.

This is standing the folks at my church on their heads.

hee,hee.

EdHeath said...

Obama is coming into office with the deck stacked against him. Even in the last few months of the Bush administration we have learned that some in the administration were told by an Iraqi defector that there were no Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq before we invaded. So instead of calling off the invasion, the administration used the defector as the "author" of a letter they "intercepted" which said exactly the opposite, that there were WMDs. We find out a high ranking official of the department of the interior was systematically gutting environmental legislation and selling public land to loggers and oil companies. And the Senate proved once again that Harry Reid has no guts and refuses to make Mitch McConnell wet himself by standing for 12 to 24 hours in a real filibuster.

Obama faces unrealistically high expectations for his administration and at the same time a hostile Senate which clearly plans to force Obama to bend to their will and a country that no longer trusts its government to help them if they are drowning, in debt, in sickness or in actual water caused by flooding.

In the face of all that, Obama is reaching out and trying to be the President for all the people. He is using a very popular minister for the prayer at his inauguration, one that millions of people trust. And so John K. criticizes Obama. John K. criticizes Obama every day because Obama has the audacity to breathe. John K. takes Obama's confession about teenage cocaine use and turns Obama into a crack dealer. Meanwhile, John K. has nothing to say about Rush Limbaugh, as a very rich white guy, indulging himself with abuse of prescription drugs. Limbaugh used his money and influence to avoid being prosecuted, even accepting the help of the ACLU that John K likes to mock. This even though the hypocrite Rush Limbaugh condemns poor people for using drugs.

Obama faces a stacked deck, not least because the conservative hypocrites are out in force, using their rich friends to try to undermine Obama, even as they continue their illegal ways.

John K. said...

John K: Ed Heath, you just have to stop assuming. You can't read my mind. I criticize Hussein Obama because he is a liberal. And liberalism destroys people. As for Hussein Obama's use of drugs, he used and sold it while in college. Hardly the acts of a teenager. And since it bother you so much that Limbaugh used oxycontin to combat pain, I just wonder why it does not bother you that Hussein Obama used cocaine for pleasure. You must be some type of sadist.

John K. said...

John K: Nope, Limbaugh turned down the help of the ACLU. And it does seem to bother you, Ed Heath, that Limbaugh demanded the same rights from the courts that Clinton demanded Odd how you think. But you are a liberal. And you usually get it wrong.

John K. said...

John K: Face it left wing kooks. Hussein Obama threw you liberals under the bus with this Warren thing. Especially after all your protests over Prop 8. And I am rolling on the floor laughing at you and saying, YOU BEEN HAD.

EdHeath said...

Yes, every one who takes medication for pain, following their doctor's orders on dosage and interval, ends up in rehab. Limbaugh, by his own admission, was addicted to painkillers in 2003. He was, as I say, an adult, wealthy white man, and a drug addict. He probably used multiple doctors, but successfully blocked investigators efforts to find that out (because apparently he has much to hide).

The ACLU filed a friend of the court brief on Limbaugh's behalf. I don't know if they offered additional legal help, although certainly Limbaugh would seem not to need additional help (or the help he needed would not be the kind the ACLU would provide).

If you have proof Obama sold drugs in high school or college, by all means, provide it. Apparently he stopped using when he got to college. And he used drugs in high school because as one of 3 black kids in a two thousand student school, he was subjected to pressures of racism you can't even imagine. Sounds like pleasure to me.

Meanwhile, you continue to embarrass real conservatives.

gtl said...

johnk,

He had, what, 2000 Oxys in his possession? He was using in that amount "for pain?"

LOL!

John K. said...

John K: Actually GTL, yes. He had to follow it up with back surgery that still bothers him to this day. Next silly question? But then why should it matter to you GTL? Get real. You support and voted for a guy who used and sold while in college. And he did not sell cocaine or use it to combat pain. So stop being a hypocrite and perhaps you will have some credibility.

John K. said...

John K: Ed, ACLU is free to do what it wants. Limbaugh and his lawyer refused all ACLU help, asked them to back away. Black made those statements on FOX and CNN and Limbaugh on his radio show. Again Ed Heath, why should it bother you. You voted for and supported a guy who used and sold cocaine while in college. Next stupid question.

John K. said...

John K: Back to Warren. If you lefties actually believed in what you profess, then you would be in front of the podium with signs protesting the prop 8 issue just like you did in front of the Mormon church. But neither you nor Norman will even think of doing that. Why, first step to being a liberal is being a hypocrite. Get 'em fired up Maria. Let's go to DC on Jan 20th and protest Prop 8 right in front of Warren. I am still on the floor laughing about this.

gtl said...

johnk,

Any doctor who prescribes OxyContin in the amount Limbaugh had in his possession would lose his license. And, if these were prescribed for pain, why was he having his maid buy them for him, in the parking lot of a Dennys?

BTW, it's hillarious for you, of all people, to try to steer the conversation back onto topic. LOL!!!

EdHeath said...

"Back to Warren"? Incredible, John K. actually cares what the post was about?

"Again Ed Heath, why should it bother you." So I'm not allowed to talk about Limbaugh? Wasn't it you, John K., who said that Limbaugh was right nighty eight or ninty nine point something? If you want to use what Limbaugh says to defend your own statements, we are entitled to look at Limbaugh's past. 2000 oxycodones over a six month period (as perscribed by four different doctors)? That is a reasonable amount of medication? Limbaugh entered a plea agreement, essentially pleding guilty to avoid a trial. So Limbaugh is a convicted drug addict. Apparently you will allow Limbaugh to commit any crime and you will say "Please, sir, may I have another".

You still have not substaniated your statement that Obama sold drugs in either high school or college. He said this at the candidates fourm at the Saddleback Church:

"Obama acknowledged his drug and alcohol use as a teenager when asked about his personal failure.

"I was so obsessed with me and the reasons I might be dissatisfied, I couldn't focus on other people," he said."

He was selfish as a teenager. Imagine that. He appears to have grown since.

EdHeath said...

But John K is right, we should address Warren.

When Bush was elected he promised to reach across the aisle, and to return civility to Washington (did he keep that promise?). Tony Norman pointed out that Obama has done this sort of thing before, when he was President of the Law Review. I remember reading that a conservative professor who authored a law review article said that Obama offered his suggestions totally in keeping with the conservative theme of the article.

There are good arguments that Obama should not have chosen Rick Warren for this. But I have to say that because he did, there is further attention focused on Warren's recent anti-gay activities, even as evangelicals feel they are being approached in the Obama presidency. The only way Warren might move on his less progressive positions (and bring his followers with him) is if he feels he has a voice at the table. I don' pretend any great wisdom, but surely we all remember that aggressive Hillary-care apparently contributed to the Democrats defeats in the '94 midterms (and I don’t mean to slam Mrs Clinton with that remark, she presented a smart plan the Republicans were able to spin negatively). The more Obama can be the President for everyone, the better we will all be. I wouldn’t be surprised or disappointed if Obama offered a senior ambassadorship to John McClain, perhaps to the Court of St James. It would remove a senior Republican from the Senate, while also acknowledging the lifetime of service of a true American Patriot.

EdHeath said...

"McClain". Geeze. McCain, obviously.

Bob said...

What's the big deal?
Religions are club for people that believe (or want to) in certain ideals.

It's a person CHOICE to be anti-whatever, MARIA. Just because you're agnostic or athiest (make up your mind) or feminist, doesn't mean you have to push your values on everyone else under the guise of the political right.

Remember, political corecctness promotes socialism.

---

On another subject, what does this blog completely neglect anything that has to do with the economy?

Bob said...

OOPS- On another subject, [WHY] does this blog completely neglect anything that has to do with the economy?

Fillippelli the (Wannabe) Cook said...

So at this "historic" inauguration, the president-elect is, according to Tony Norman, playing politics, and that's supposed to be comforting?

Tony, please, think before you write.

If the president-elect thinks stunts like this are really going to bridge some sort of divide, he's sadly mistaken.

John K. said...

John K: Oh but he does Fillip. So does Paul Begala of CNN and a few others. But if you liberals had any principles you would attend the event on Jan 20th and protest that Prop 8 thing just like you did in front of Mormon churches. But you won't. Because just like Olbermouth, Hussein Obama can sell crack cocaine to his kids and you left wingers would excuse it and blame it on Bush. LMAO This Warren thing is as funny as....(see next post)

John K. said...

John K: ...Blagojevich standing in front of the mics and refusing to budge. LOL You lefties faked that outcry of outrage. Blago didn't buy it. Conservatives are going to keep it alive. Mostly because Emanual had 21 conversations with Blago over the Senate seat. Left wing kooks, YOU BEEN HAD by an egomaniac named Hussein Obama and it is so sweet.

dayvoe said...

Giggle-giggle

So now Obama is selling crack TO HIS KIDS?

This is John K at his purest.

Obama selling crack to his kids.

That's what John K. said.

dayvoe said...

By the way, that's disgusting.

Clyde Wynant said...

Maria -

That is one of the funniest and pointed posts I've ever read. Bravo! The "missionary" thing had me LOL!

As to Rick Warren, I'm with Tony, I want a time when a good old atheist like me can become Prez and skip over the entire religious aspect of my inauguration!

And while it bothers the hell out of me, I'm willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt, since up until now, I'be pretty much agreed with EVERYTHING he's done.

Clyde

EdHeath said...

Blagojevich will be gone sooner or later. He is a clear example that there are plenty of dumb democrats like there are plenty of dumb republicans. But I shouldn't push the hypocracy issue too much, though, John K. As you say, we got back to Warren (to mixed results), but we all know that Limbaugh is both a drug addict (in rehab) and yet condemned other people who tried to self medicate their own pain. So you are free to either lay off the liberals as hypocrites bit, or admit that conservatives are in the same boat (its a big boat).

John K. said...

John K: So let me get this straight Dayvoe. You don't have a problem with a President selling crack just so long as it is not to his kids. So if Hussein Obama sells his Senate seat or crack cocaine (as he did in college) you can defend that, but not if it is to his kids. Gee, you and Olbermouth are on the same page.

John K. said...

John K: Well then Maria, act on your principles. Mount a protest on Jan 20th, you can even do it in Pittsburgh, against Hussein Obama selecting Rev. Warren. You won't. Because in the end you really have no principles. Just a desire to tell others how to live.

John K. said...

John K: By the way Maria, it is nice to see you support Hussein Obama on, "Everything he's done." Because he ain't pulling out of Iraq or modifying the FISA law. Like I said, you left wing kooks in here really are not opposed to the war in Iraq, you just hate Bush taking credit for it. Also nice to see you support Hussein Obama and his endorsement of aggressive interrogation tactics. LMAO LMAO Oh the left, working with all their brain and still not getting it.

dayvoe said...

One last time, John.

Show us the evidence that President Obama sold crack. Show us. It's not enough to say that you heard it on Fox (or that Limbaugh said it, or Krauthammer said it, etc).

SHOW US.

Until then, you're just blowing smoke.

The disgusting part is your unsupported charge that Obama sold crack TO HIS KIDS.

This thread is done.