August 7, 2007

Follow-up on FISA

In this posting, I asked if anyone knew who the sixteen Senate Democrats were who voted in favor of S. 1927. I finally was able to track down the vote in the Senate. The sixteen:
Bayh (D-IN)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Conrad (D-ND)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lincoln (D-AR)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Salazar (D-CO)
Webb (D-VA)
Just for the record both Pennsylvania Senator Bob Casey and local Congressman Jason Altmire voted in favor of the recent restructuring of the FISA statute.

And what did they vote for?

Spencer Ackerman over at TPMMuckraker begins his analysis with this:

It's a fairly safe bet, judging by the amount of expert disagreement about the act's provisions, that most members of Congress don't know what they've just passed.
Never a good sign. And then:

What's clear is that now the Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence can now obtain the international communications of U.S. citizens or residents without a warrant provided that such surveillance is "reasonably believed" to be "directed at" persons outside the country. The FISA Court's new, restricted role here is to determine -- up to six months after the fact of the surveillance -- that the government's procedures in seeking the primarily-foreign data is not "clearly erroneous." If it isn't, the surveillance goes forward.

One of the most controversial, and little understood, provisions in the bill changes the definition of electronic surveillance -- but not substantively. In short, it takes out from Fourth Amendment protections surveillance of a person "reasonably believed to be located outside of the United States," no matter who that individual communicates with, inside or outside the United States.

He quotes Jim Dempsey, policy director of the Center for Democracy and Technology, saying:
If you are talking with somebody overseas, and the government intercepts that communication, it is electronic surveillance if government says they were directing the surveillance at you,
But...
It is not electronic surveillance if the government says it's directing the surveillance at a person overseas.
That's what they voted for. Thanks, guys.

Not to fear. But House Speaker Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Reid have both said they'll revisit the issue in six months.

Here's a shocker. Dubya wants to revisit the issue, too. From the White House:

While I appreciate the leadership it took to pass this bill, we must remember that our work is not done. This bill is a temporary, narrowly focused statute to deal with the most immediate shortcomings in the law.

When Congress returns in September the Intelligence committees and leaders in both parties will need to complete work on the comprehensive reforms requested by Director McConnell, including the important issue of providing meaningful liability protection to those who are alleged to have assisted our Nation following the attacks of September 11, 2001.

Isn't that last part an odd phrase? It also pops up here in the Director of National Intelligence's letter to Congress outlining the "Critical Changes Needed" for FISA:
Second, those who assist the Government in protecting us from harm must be protected from liability. This includes those who are alleged to have assisted the Government after September 11, 2001.
That means legal immunity for those telecom companies who participated in the dubya's illegal domestic surveillance.

Democrats in Congress cave in (yet again) to the worst president ever and the 4th Amendment takes another body blow.

Thanks, Bob. Thanks, Jason.

19 comments:

Anonymous said...

I simply cannot express my shock and surprise at Mr. Casey's and Mr. Altmire's votes. NOT.

These men told you they would be pro-life, anti-civil-liberties chickenhawks before you voted for them. In fact, you voted for them BECAUSE pro-life, anti-civil-liberties chickenhawk DINOs could WIN, remember? They could defeat the evil by becoming the evil, remember?

Well, they won, along with Webb and Salazar and Tester and the rest. You got what you voted for -- two, two, two right-wing parties in one great legislature.

Now the Dems get to share the moral responsiblity and the political blame for the sewage pouring out of Washington, and you get the satisfaction of knowing that you have helped.

Congrats to both you and to your mentor, Unkle Karl. Now maybe you understand what he was talking about when he told you that he knew the electoral arithmetic early last November. He doesn't look quite so incompetent now, does he? His Permanent Republican Majority includes most Democrats now, and is ready to goose-step ever onward as the Thousand-Year Right Wing Coalition of Republicans and DINOs.

The next great victory for the TYRWC: Hillary 2008.

Anonymous said...

OK, that was a rant. Sorry. Let me try this another way.

A young girl stepped outside her cottage one cold winter night and discovered a viper freezing to death in the snow. The viper pleaded with her, "Please take me in and let me sleep beside you and warm me with your body, or I shall die."

The girl was torn. "But you're a viper. If I take you in and sleep beside you and warm you with my body, you may bite me." But the viper was very persuasive and the girl took him in and let him sleep beside her and warmed him with her body. The viper was saved.

In the middle of the night, the girl was awakened by a sharp pain in her belly. "How could you bite me?" she cried in horror, knowing that she would lose her life to the viper's venom. "I took you in and slept beside you and warmed you with my body. I saved you. How could you do this to me?"

The viper's reply was simple and true. "What did you expect?" he asked. "You knew I was a viper when you took me in."

Anonymous said...

I am dissapointed in both Casey and Altmire, but SS makes a good point that we should not be surprised.

However, let's look at this another way. I'm not sure our delegation is this smart, but, what if....

When the legislation is revisited in six months, which is six months closer to the 2008 Presidential election, the Dems THEN vote the thing down. What I'm suggesting is that they are holding back and hoping to make this more of an issue when it will mean more to the electorate, many of whom are (in the dog days of summer) disengaged from the political process entirely...

Often, timing is everything. I'll keep an open mind until that time.

Pilt

Justin said...

That is, put simply, not good enough.

I don't want politicians who play politics. I want them to do what's right.

Anonymous said...

Nice story, John. Thanks for the foreseeable nightmare.

Was that an Aesop fable?

Anonymous said...

I don't remember where I picked this one up, X. Probably at some twelve-step meeting or other.

A quick attempt to Google it yeilded nada.

EdHeath said...

I've certainly heard variations on John's fable before. Isn't there one from some movie about a scorpion and a frog, where the scorpion wants to cross a river, asks the frog to carry him, denies he will sting frog, does sting frog, as they both sink the frog asks ”why?”, scorpion replies “It’s in my nature” …

Like Pilt, I actually do have some faith. That the democrats are yielding ground to the president on some issues to avoid vetos or bad press from the White House doesn’t mean they won’t turn and make a stand at some point. Apparently they have passed some bills that haven’t made much difference in my life yet, but according to Nancy Pelosi they wanted to do that before taking up time consuming fights. I am willing to take that much at face value. At some point the democrats do need to start a few government or at least legislative shutdowns, just to get the message out.

Social Justice NPC Anti-Paladin™ said...

These men told you they would be pro-life, anti-civil-liberties chickenhawks before you voted for them.
SS
I am surprised that you did not use "anti-choice" instead of pro-life.
You forgot pro-gun.
As for chickenhawk.
So here is how liberals avoid debate on the war for those keeping score:

* You've Never Served: You're a chickenhawk so they ignore the merits of your argument.
* You Did Serve: You're still a chickenhawk for not serving now so they ignore the merits of your argument.
* You Are Serving: It's illegal for you to speak about the war so they ignore the merits of your argument.

or
Just remember this

Hmmmm.....
I wonder if the lefties will realize John Kerry isn’t running against George Bush in ’08 and that neither Hillary or Obama have military experience. In fact, it escapes me if any of the Democratic Candidates have any military combat service.

Not that the Republican candidates are overflowing with military service either but they at least have some.

I expect making the Chickenhawk argument to be considered a huge sin by Democrats soon.

As for your fable about the girl and viper, reminds me of this.

The Scorpion and the Frog

Anonymous said...

Mein Heir, I think you make a good point. Many Dems are going to have their own chickenhawk problem next year, inasmuch as they never served and have voted repeatedly to support the manifestly failed Bush strategy. (Did I just put those two words next to each other? I'm definitely slipping.)

OTOH: I'm guessing you're a huge fan of collanders, swiss cheese, and Iraqi casualties, right? These are the few things in the universe that have more holes in them than your chickenhawk "score card."

The contrast between the Girl and the Viper story and the Scorpion and the Frog is that the Scorpion also kills himself. Our compassionate conservative Democrat vipers emulate their Republican models in benefiting themselves in the short term while destroying the lives of those who helped them.

In the long term, of course, we're all dead. Have a perfect day.

Anonymous said...

* You've Never Served: You're a chickenhawk so they ignore the merits of your argument.

It's hard to ignore something that isn't there. "Give it 6 more months" is not an argument and can only be said so many times. "We're making progress" when all of the verifiable evidence says otherwise isn't a meritorious argument. And when every motherfucking thing the war proponents have said time and time and time again has been 100% wrong - many of whom who appear to believe so strongly in the war but appear to have no intention of getting their boots on the ground to fight it - the only conclusion can be "chickenhawk."

* You Did Serve: You're still a chickenhawk for not serving now so they ignore the merits of your argument.

Same as above. Arguments without merit are meant to be ignored and, again, if this war is so important and so vital, get your boots back on the ground.

* You Are Serving: It's illegal for you to speak about the war so they ignore the merits of your argument.

It's illegal to speak about the politics of the war while in uniform, as it is illegal to stab somebody in the chest for no good reason. Assuming you're referring to the Kos convention incident, the solider's arguments were not ignored, but the other soldiers on the panel were trying to get the guy to NOT violate military rules.

Finally, do you notice that nobody else on this blog finds it necessary to link to the comments of some other blogger to provide support for their statements? In your case, of course, the links only lead to the fact-free rantings of wingnuts and, thus, do nothing to support your points (a term I use loosely), but that's the beauty of having those pesky facts and evidence on your side, I guess. Do you dream of a day like that, when more than the occasional nugget you dispense is actually based in fact?

Anonymous said...

Last year Conventional Wisdom counseled Dem. candidates to present themselves as 'conservative' dems to win.

They won & what did they win? Really high disapproval ratings from the voters.

Wonder if the next crop of candidates will distance themselves from that 'conservative' dem label and act a little more like, oh, I don't know, DEMOCRATS?

EdHeath said...

Wouldn't the viper maybe die as the girl cooled? I kind of assumed that ...

Anonymous said...

Politics is a process, like it or not. It took time for the neocon nutballs to conquer, and it will take time for us to reclaim that territory.

And like it or not, politics will always be part and parcel of governing. Hell, politics is part of everyday life. You can't go to a staff meeting without allowing for a certain amount of give and take, and understanding that you might have to "live to fight another day."

Pilt

Anonymous said...

Has Altmire done ANYTHING you like? Voting for the children's health bill, energy bill, minimum wage, stem cell research, medicare Rx, timeline in Iraq, increased fuding for college grants and loans....ANYTHING??? He also voted for the democratic alternative for the FISA bill, which failed. Do you give him credit for that? Perhaps you'd rather have Hart back?

Dayvoe said...

I'm very happy that Melissa Hart is no longer in the House of Representatives.

And I am deliriously happy that Rick Santorum is now a former Senator from Pennsylvania.

That doesn't mean I should be happy with everything Jason Altmire (or Bob Casey) has done.

Our civil liberties are too important not to speak up.

Anonymous said...

Dayvoe, you know I love ya, man, but...

Remember the signs they used to put up on highway construction sites? "Short-term inconvenience, long-term improvement."

Casey et alii are the opposite of that, as we are beginning to see. Short term improvement (and a significant one, granted), long-term calamity.

The conversion of the Democratic Party into a second conservative party may be the most dangerous threat to democracy-as-we-know-it-and-as-Madison-intended in America (and by extension, the world) since the Articles of Confederation, certainly since the 14th Amendment.

I don't make that statement lightly. I have not forgotten the suppression of women, the clampdown on labor, the internment of Asian-Americans, the threat to draft the rail workers, and Gitmo. This is likely to be worse than any of that.

Remember just last year when Congress put no restraints on the right-wing executive? Well, note that it's not much different now. Now imagine another few Caseys elected "because he can beat the evil Republican Whosis" in the next four years. The Right would own the US for the lifetime of our grandkids.

Not an acceptable "victory." Not acceptable at all.

Anonymous said...

On Mondays Lynn Cullen show, Jason Altmire called up explaining his vote. His last statement was, and we were also rushed into this vote it was 1:00 AM and everyone wanted to leave..(vacation)In other words, Sorry about that but the Constitution can't come before my vacation. He's better than Hart but look who you're comparing him to.

Anonymous said...

There certainly was a vacation coming up but, as Jason explained yesterday, there was also a deadline coming up for reauthorizatin of the FISA bill. It had to get done and they weren't able to pass the sweeping reform they wanted.

So the choice was let FISA run out, which either gives the administration carte blanche or eliminates all possibility of surveillance, or reauthorize it temporarily and come back in 6 months to redo it.

Justin said...

@Pilt:

I understand what you're saying about politics always being a part of governing, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. That doesn't mean that I have to accept the status quo as either the best or the only possible outcome of our system of governance.

I've already had to deal with the obvious fact that my socialistic views on life don't match up with anyone's in Congress, or even any viable candidate's views. You can't force me to like that, either, but I have at least come to terms with the idea that I probably won't ever be truly represented in our government. Fine. There are worse fates.

But I can't countenance not doing what's right for the sake of doing what's right. Compromise is nice, but compromise in our government usually means abandoning anything that people on the Left (and I mean the real Left, not Democrats) really want in order to give the people on the Right (and that's pretty much everyone in public office, as I'm concerned, excepting maybe Dennis Kucinich) what they want.

And we keep hoping that means that the immense conservative majority in this country will, at some point, throw us a bone. It just won't happen if we don't decide to stand up for ourselves for a change instead of being the milquetoasty compromisers the Right has depended on for the past 65 or 70 years, if not longer.

I don't expect many people here or anywhere else to agree with me, because let's face it, those of us who actually fall somewhere on the left of the political spectrum are really few and far between, but we need to stop acting like these things and others like corporate ownership of, well, everything, including our politics, is okay. It's not. And the sooner we decide to stop pretending otherwise, the sooner we actually start convincing people that they're really more liberal than they think they are.